Higher education right after highschool? F×ck that

[Barney048]

I would advise my fictional children against doing their studies for 3-4 years after finishing highschool. Why? The majority of people work in a field completely unrelated to their degree or well at least half. So if u are stuck with student loans till retirement at least be sure that you are happy with what you're paying for. Many people also drop out quickly.

Over here higher education is free, or at least ur "first two tries" are, but I'd still advise my kids against doing their studies right after highschool.

At 18 you're basically just a kid who knows nothing. You pick the field of study based on no real life experiance. Most people just do it randomly, are influenced by those around them or choose a major the wrong reasons.

3-4 years after highschool will mean the world to you. You'll know if higher education even is for you by then and what you really want to study and build a career in. Ofcourse that depends on how you spend those years. Will you use them for personal growth and self-discovery or treat them as a vacation?

I personally regret going in blindly right after highschool. I felt pressured because everyone around me was going to Uni and because my parents had high expectations of me... so i just chose something randomly. 

[shadowrider]

 I always tell people to consider vocational school, at least for those that like working with their hands. The world will always need mechanics, welders, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, and definitely HVAC repair. If school isn't for you, it wasn't for me, take a job as an apprentice. Starting out I worked in petrochem plants and even a golf course trying to find what I liked and was good at. But I took the time and chances to find something I didn't hate doing and that would afford me a lifestyle I was ok with. Take chances while you're young and try different jobs. Then if you want a degree you'll be better prepared for the work it will take and probably more determined and driven because you've seen some of the other options.

[beanbean]

We definitely all our not the same and it takes us all to make the world always find your own path don't base it of anyone else

[Cebakes]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:10 AM, shadowrider said:

 I always tell people to consider vocational school, at least for those that like working with their hands. The world will always need mechanics, welders, machinists, carpenters, plumbers, and definitely HVAC repair. If school isn't for you, it wasn't for me, take a job as an apprentice. Starting out I worked in petrochem plants and even a golf course trying to find what I liked and was good at. But I took the time and chances to find something I didn't hate doing and that would afford me a lifestyle I was ok with. Take chances while you're young and try different jobs. Then if you want a degree you'll be better prepared for the work it will take and probably more determined and driven because you've seen some of the other options.

Your advice is spot on. College is not for everyone. It’s becoming more and more difficult to find good plumbers, HVAC , electricians and other skilled tradespeople. 

With experience, it’s possible to earn $100K+, go into business for yourself,  and even hire others.   I was in a long-term relationship with a woman whose son went to a three-year trade school.  He wanted to quit after the first week, his father said he could, his mother said she would pack his belongings and put them on the curb, and I told him he would be making a Herculean mistake.  I also called him a p****.  He is now 28, married, four kids, has a house, several acres, and making about $125,000 a year with Amtrak.
 

 

[Andriel_Isilien]

Going to college was always a good idea until everybody was doing it. I definitely regret the time and effort I put into the degree.

[Little kaiya]

University and College certainly won't be for everyone but for some folks it is absolutely the right decision. I went into University right out of high school and for me there couldn't have been a better decision. I'm a senior strategic advisor for government and what I learned has been critical in my success. It wasn't the courses themselves though it was the skills I learned. It was how to balance working, studying and making money. It was writing skills. It was how to piece together different data sources.

It may not be for everyone but that also shouldn't be held against those who did go directly there and received huge benefits that ked to successful careers. I knew what I wanted and I personally regret nothing.

[Cebakes]

On 6/22/2024 at 6:39 PM, Little kaiya said:

University and College certainly won't be for everyone but for some folks it is absolutely the right decision. I went into University right out of high school and for me there couldn't have been a better decision. I'm a senior strategic advisor for government and what I learned has been critical in my success. It wasn't the courses themselves though it was the skills I learned. It was how to balance working, studying and making money. It was writing skills. It was how to piece together different data sources.

It may not be for everyone but that also shouldn't be held against those who did go directly there and received huge benefits that ked to successful careers. I knew what I wanted and I personally regret nothing.

College absolutely adds to the maturation and social development of  most young people attending universities.  Looking back, I should have used my college time better. I was in a frat and a little bit of a partier. The 70s and early to mid 80s were pretty wild times.
 

College and University systems throughout the world are all different. I think college in America needs to be reimagined and reduced to three years. Some classes and credits aren’t necessary.  There may still need to be some four year degrees.   These colleges have become way too bloated with administrators and costs. Community colleges and university branch campuses are also a good way to go through college.  As I mentioned before, I am also very high on trade schools.  

My daughter suddenly lost her mom and the trauma was too much for her to go away to college. She stayed home and earned a BS through a Penn State Branch campus. Very proud of her.

Companies in America today are changing their degree requirements. Obviously there are always going to be careers that require very specific and extensive schooling,  but it has become much easier today to get into good companies without a four-year degree.  

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by Cebakes

[shadowrider]

 I totally agree the U.S. school system needs to be overhauled and fine tuned. 4 years of your life and extreme debt is ridiculous for most degrees and disciplines. I think there needs to be more staff with real world knowledge of some of the subjects being taught also. You can memorize and quote all the books in the world but experience will generally trump memorization of theory when the pressure is on. There needs to be a balance of the 2. I think this is definitely needed for mechanical engineering degrees. They should take at least a semester of machining and one of welding so they better understand how things work and how to make things more practical. I have wasted a lot of time over my career explaining to engineers why something either can't be done or isn't cost effective. Only to do it my way and show them so they can change the blueprints on their end. Look under the hood of any newer car and you'll see examples of this.

 A couple of my issues with our system are that they started requiring 2 years of a foreign language to get into certain colleges. There are also the English classes you had to take once in college. You shouldn't be forced to learn another language then be forced to study English in even greater depth unless that pertains to your end goal of profession. To this day I have never had to diagram a sentence or explain what a dangling participle is on a job. I have also only needed to translate a foreign language once or twice on blueprints. And it was a language my schools still don't offer all these years later. So all those hours would have been a waste for me and better spent on learning what I actually needed to know. Does speaking a different language make you more rounded as a person ? Probably. Should it be required of someone who isn't even sure what they want to major in yet ? No. 

 Also congrats to your daughter, that's awesome. I am a firm believer in online learning and community schools. Everyone works at their own pace and being in your own home just seems like a better learning environment to me generally speaking. A friend of mine got his bachelors and masters online and immediately got hired on with a really good company. Another friend went to the local community college and excelled and is now teaching at a medical college. Too many people think you need that ivy league degree but they read the same text books as everyone else and probably have less time to work with you as an individual if you are struggling. 

 College should be about getting the next generation ready for life and work in the real world. You don't need all the extras if you are just going to forget them the day after you graduate. I also think all the extras lead to more students feeling overwhelmed and stressed and leads to more drop outs or anxiety issues. If you know you want to be a marine biologist 2 more English classes makes no sense. It adds stress and work to your schedule and you are literally paying for something you don't want or need. 

 In my dream world college or higher education should be a buffet style plan. You pick the classes you know you need and maybe 1 or 2 that are of interest and you pay accordingly. That would save students a ton of debt and stress and also mean students had only concentrated on their discipline for the last 2 - 4 years. That's a win for the companies looking to hire team members. I would much rather hire someone that spent a couple years honing only their craft than someone that split their time between their craft and say, conjugating verbs. That's my hot take on it anyway.

[Guest Gentleman_Daddy]

I mean the problem is, you're asked to pick your field before you even know what it means. To a certain extent we're encouraged to be afraid to try new careers, given just how important you're work, is comparative to the rest of your life, it should be positively applauded to try new things! I'm not familiar with how the system works in other countries, but I can say from experience, the U.K. does not encourage mature students. Everything from funding to being accepted on a course is considerably more difficult. Rare it is to find someone who is truly fulfilled in their profession. We should encourage and celebrate learning new skills and knowledge regardless of age....<coughs> ok enough old fart ranting.

[LeftyGuitar]

I remember I hated the traditional schooling system. It left such a bad impression on me, I really have no desire to go back to school. Though I have thought about it off and on. I did graduate high school. Of course I graduated right at the peak of the Great Recession (2008). I did teach myself a lot about computers and computer programming though. Too bad a lot of those jobs are being off-soruced as well. There is still a demand for programmers and I.T., but I don't think its as high as it once was. Side note, I really think America needs to re-do our education system, big time!

[PrincessM_13]

I always tell people to do community college. With that I was able to save money by having it all funded by grants and scholarships and I was able to change my major when I felt lost and scared since I wasn’t enjoying it and I didn’t feel too bad about changing it since I had funding and didn’t loose too much of it by changing my major. 

[littlecountrygirl]

Community college is the way to go, I’m so glad I listened to my parents about going to community college before I go on with my degree because now that I’m almost done with my core classes I only need two years to finish my degree instead of four because I don’t have to do all the core classes when I transfer which makes it maybe about the best choice I ever made.

[littlecountrygirl]

Just now, littlecountrygirl said:

Community college is the way to go, I’m so glad I listened to my parents about going to community college before I go on with my degree because now that I’m almost done with my core classes I only need two years to finish my degree instead of four because I don’t have to do all the core classes when I transfer which makes it maybe about the best choice I ever made.

And if I change my mind and don’t wanna transfer to this next school I’ll still have an associate degree so it all works out in the end eventually no matter what path you take 

[Baby Manda]

School in America does need to be overhauled, but it needs to start much younger, not just at the college level. I'm working on my graduate degree in early childhood special education (inclusive settings) all online and one of the required courses I took last fall had us read the book "The Smartest Kids in the World and How They Got That Way" written by Amanda Ripley, along with piles of research articles, journals and statistics from around the world. 

One thing that stood out to me, was that countries with strong educational systems pre-k through secondary/high school prepared students best for real world challenges. This could mean college/university for a few, community college, trade school, or apprenticeship programs for other students and some students would directly enter the workforce for a variety of reasons.  

The biggest challenge to changing to this system is an overhaul to the pre-k through secondary educational systems.  Many countries around the world have done this successfully,  one country stood out because it changed how it trains its teachers back in the middle of the 1900s. The country selected 3 colleges only to train teachers and set the expectations for admission extremely high. The program is rigorous and takes 6 years to complete, with 4 years studying educational theory (how to teach) before working with students. (Something that is barely a semester in traditional American teacher training programs). Once graduating, teachers enter an apprenticeship type setting (not student teaching) for a few years before they achieve a Master teacher status to run their own classroom. Because of this rigorous training, (equal to or even more intense than American medical doctors) teachers are the authority in the classroom and have the full support of the parents to adjust curriculum to meet the educational needs of  students.

Another difference is teaching foreign language in lower elementary school (primary grades) brain research demonstrates that our brains learn language easiest the younger we are, so teaching language to children in the first few years of school makes sense. Most countries teach their native language and English to their students so they are fluent in both or even multi-lingual before graduating secondary school. 

Educational changes in America tend to happen very slowly with much argument and discussion before anything is achieved. Then the necssary changes are years behind the current research. Expectations vary widely when it is left up to individual school districts, because the needs vary greatly based on the population, industry, geographic region, cultural needs, and environmental changes to the region. All of this changes how each graduating class is prepared for the real world.  

The easiest answer is, there are no easy answers.  There are so many options because America is a very diverse country with diverse needs and our students' educational needs are no different. What is best for one student is not best for another. 

I was successful in high school, graduated with honors, high ACT and SAT scores, super involved in music (band, choir, orchestra), speech and drama, theater, home economics,  smart kid clubs, journalism, advanced classes for European history, calculus, physics, chemistry, psychology, College English and took foreign language (plus other stuff). I worked part time at the public library, babysat, was involved in 4-H, lead at the county level for 4-H, involved at my church and another church in leadership roles. Sounds great! Perfect candidate for college! I failed at a 4 year school. 1 credit in flute my first year at an all girls college. I wasn't prepared for college. The next year I lived on my aunt and uncle's farm in another state and attended a community college for free. I took 18 credits and worked at the desk in the computer lab. My uncle had rules for me about curfew, who could visit, chores, grades, and church. He gave me my own trailer to live in, a car to drive, and food if I was there at mealtime. I got straight A's and met people from around the world! I moved back home the next year and barely held a B average at the local 4 year college, even living off campus. I switched at semester break to the community college and got straight A's again, finishing my AA degree. I added another year of business classes through the community college, but stopped when I had a baby. Eventually I did head back to the 4 year school, but I didn't care about the culture of the campus anymore.  I studied science, but I got sick and had to take a break for a year, then I went back and finished all my education classes in 4 semesters. It was a lot, and yet it wasn't.

Once I could see my purpose, my goal, it was easy. I had a focus, like when my uncle gave me clear instructions on his expectations.  Grad school is the same for me. I need this now to get to where I want to be in a year or two. So I'm focused on the goal.

When deciding what to do out of high school, think about what is your goal, but also what is your passion, your love, your enjoyment! What is something you do that can earn money and not make you feel drained every day. If you really don't know, maybe working for a year or heading to a community college/trade school would be a better place to start. I love science, history,  reading, writing,  learning but I never thought of being a teacher! It took until my late 20s before it even crossed my mind! I have a huge college debt because I thought I should do what was practical instead of what I was designed to do. 

 

Do what you love and love what you do. But if you don't know yet, just find a job for now. College will still be there. - I recently shared these words with my own daughter who was struggling to be at a 4-year college. I gave her permission to drop out. It took time, but she is happily working full-time at a childcare center and is gaining experience, confidence, and independence.  The center will pay for her education,  if she wants to pursue it later, too. 

Education in America may be flawed, but it meets the needs of our diverse people. Remember it is our differences that make us unique and our uniqueness that gives us strength!