The money talk.

[DaddysMonkey]

…. 👋🏻 Hi. 

This topic might be a bit boring for some people - or perhaps even triggering or upsetting to others. There no real trigger warnings needed I suppose but money is usually a very sensitive topic for people. Even if it is not their own personal finances they are discussing , it can be really vulnerable / embarrassing to reveal how you think about money and use it / save it ect. Bring in relationships , ESPECIALLY ones like in this lifestyle where there is more often than not a caregiver or top / Dom involved being a provider… finances can be a really scary subject…. So let’s talk about it ! 😅 Touchy subjects seem to be my forte I guess. 

What sparked this topic for me was at first binge watching a lot of Caleb Hammer content on YouTube - and working at a financial institution. Caleb Hammer’s channel focuses on finances - and my favorite series he does is called “Financial Audit” , which revolves around an individual , their debt , and how to solve their financial problems. (If they are willing to do the work and be honest with themselves.) Working at a financial institution and dealing with people’s money as well as their financial troubles , I am constantly thinking about how people could improve their situations. 

This is an example of what Caleb Hammer does for reference : 

Being part of this community , it didn’t take very long for me to start blending these topics together and really wondering how people feel about their own and their partners finances. I personally grew up with a household that earned a lot of money but due to my parents spending habits , addictions , and immaturity , there was constantly foreclosure notices on our front door as well as my mother borrowing money from my grandparents. When I got a job as a minor - my mother took the money out of my accounts for herself because she was the adult on the account. My upbringing with money made me an extremely anxious person financially and a money hoarder. I have ALWAYS been hyper aware of money and spending habits and made sure to never dig myself into a hole I could not get out of. 

Something that often comes to mind when people think of Dd/Lg in general is sugar babies , or people who rely on someone else not only as a submissive of sorts but financially as well. They wouldn’t be wrong in their assumptions I suppose if you can put yourself in the shoes of an outsider. From my years in in this lifestyle - I have witnessed a lot of littles who almost expect to be taken care of monetarily or there are flat out scammers / frauds who are ACTUALLY sugar babies and just use the Dd/Lg lifestyle as a ploy / cover for their nefarious actions. There is also the idea that there are several Caregivers who will use their wealth to take advantage of littles who cannot or refuse to take care of themselves financially and use their situation as a means for financial abuse. (Financial abuse is something that happens in many relationships - not just within this lifestyle but I will say it is much more prevalent in these dynamics , BDSM in general that is or TRAD lifestyles.) 

Personally , finances and relationships go hand in hand. I believe that partners should have a good grip and understanding on what their financial plans are as a partnership and individually , and you should ESPECIALLY know someone’s financial situation before getting into a serious partnership. If your partner goes down financially , 9 out of 10 times you will go down with the ship as well. 

Someone could have INCREDIBLY awful debts and not say a word to you , the moment you are married and legally tied together … you are also partially responsible. Thinking about having an account with your new partner ? Anyone who is on an account can come in and close it - taking all of the money with them. Already made that choice and opened an account with someone , or got a credit card with someone ? You never asked what their finances looked like or cared to think about what their money spending habits are - so when you get a maxed out credit card bill….. who is to blame when both of your names are on it ? For example - if I were a piece of shit , if I ever wanted to run away , I could go into the bank where I have an account with Dad , drain all of the money completely out of it , and close the account. Because I am legally on the account , I can do whatever I want and he would be out all of the money he has put into that account.  Thinking about getting a bank account with your new partner ? Think again - and really consider the impact it could have on your financial future. Dad and I have enough trust and time between us and have had these monetary discussions to know that neither of us would ever do something like that. 

 As usual , I will pose some questions for you all to answer and will get the party going by answering some myself in hopes that it gets a healthy discussion kickstarted. Of course , feel free to ask your own questions as well. The main theme of this discussion is to really think about your finances before , during and after being in a seriously committed relationship. 

* Do you think being financially independent AND responsible is important and needed before getting into a committed partnership ? 
- Abso FUCKING lutely. In my mind , a committed partnership is taking the step to move in together , share bills and possibly even have some items in both of your names such as those bills or even a bank account. If someone is not able to handle their own bills , financial responsibilities , or spending habits on their own , in my humble opinion … you should wait to take those more serious steps. Money , bills , and debt are not something to be taken lightly and should not be a surprise to your partner after tying yourselves together through bills , debt , rent marriage or ect. It also prepares you for break ups as cynical as that sounds. It is much easier to get back to a stable place and dealing with finances on your own after a break up if you have already experienced it and know that you are fully capable. I have seen many friends and acquaintances get into relationships - move in together , only to break up and have to move back into their parents home after the break up. Is this something to be ashamed of , moving back in with your parents ? Of course not , life happens and we all do the best we can with what we have on our plates. It is however avoidable if you think about these things before committing to such important things with someone such as a lease on an apartment. Being financially independent and responsible is also a large indicator for how well someone is able to manage their life in general. And please keep in mind - being financially independent and responsible does NOT mean you are wealthy or rich. There IS a difference. Someone could have a part time job at McDonalds and pay all of their bills off time and have have an exemplary debt to income ratio with $50 left over in their account. If someone is responsible - end of. You don’t need a million dollars to be financially mature. 

* Do you believe that relying on someone financially is detrimental , or something that can lead to vulnerable situations for the person who is being financially dependent ?
- Yes , yes , and yes again. I have seen multiple situations that have involved a stay at home mother or girlfriend that is completely financially dependent on their partner , meaning if they want to leave the relationship , they will be homeless until they get back on their feet again (or will have to rely on others / outside sources). Money was turned into a weapon or a carrot over the dependents head to get them to do whatever the carrot holder wished. I grew up in a home where my mother was the bread winner , and she had complete control over our families finances.This meant my step father was basically left to ask for everything like he was a child even though he as bringing in money and helping pay bills , and take care of my sister and myself. He was constantly in a situation where he had to ask my mother’s permission to buy things he wanted or needed , while my mother was fueling her addictions and running our families finances into the ground. It can not only affect your partner but a family as a whole. 
- Something else that comes to mind would be those who are financially dependent on their partner for almost their entire life. Death happens to the best of us.. it makes me worried and curious about the situations of people who have a partner that took care of all the bills , worked , and was the one who provided. When a person who was financially dependent has a partner who suddenly passes away , given the worst case scenario - let’s imagine the provider did not have a will , did not have life insurance , basically left no way for the dependent to financially take care of themselves.. let alone leave all of the places they need to pay their bills to. That dependent person is left for lack of better words , high and dry. Things like this constantly cross my mind (may haps because of childhood traumas lol) but I would not ever allow myself to be in a situation like that. Deeply driven fears like that , being reliant on others , it terrifies me. 
- If you are a caregiver and want to provide for your little , I think a very reasonable and realistic plan should be made as well as caveats and compromises to be made. If you are wanting your little to put themselves in such a vulnerable position as being financially dependent is - you should be able to have those hard conversations with your little about what needs to happen if hard circumstances arise. What if you lose your job and cannot provide anymore and need your little to get a job and help , this would be one of those caveats that comes to mind. What if there are things that your little wants thats you cannot afford within your budget but you are still able to make sure they are comfortable ? Then they can get their own job to pay for the extra and unnecessary things that they want that do not fit into your reasonable budget instead of digging the two of yourselves into a ditch. If you are able to - make sure that your little is made payable on your accounts if you pass away - if applicable make sure that your little is in your will in case you pass away , make sure that they are able to at least have a year or two to find a job and get on their feet and provide for themselves. Even if you don’t pass away , I think it is wrong to have your partner depend on you financially without working out some sort of “in case” plan with them so that the dependent party isn’t fucked if the two involved split up or the provider dies - and one person being the dependent was agreed upon. 

* Is people wanting to be financially dependent / less financially responsible (or the opposite , providing for others) something you find is more common in the Dd/Lg / Cg/L lifestyle ? 
 - TLDR ; Yes. 
- Because a big part of feeling little involves not having adult worries - I have found it to be much more common in this lifestyle for littles to want to be dependent on their partner. I believe there are healthy ways this can be achieved , and ways that can be less beneficial. Even if you do not work and are financially dependent on your partner - I think it is extremely important to not be ignorant to how bills are paid and the money that comes in and out of the account every month. It can turn into a vulnerable / dangerous situation when someone wants to be dependent for the sake of being dependent and lazy , which I happen to have extreme biased against. Wanting to not work , not be responsible for yourself , and be completely ignorant to the financial hardships of like just because “I am small” just really doesn’t cut it for me. 
- I will use myself as an example for this as I believe the way our finances are set up lets me feel more like a kid more often but still have balanced adult responsibilities. I work a full time job and make a pretty decent amount of money - but I prefer to not deal with the actual task of going through and paying all of our monthly bills. Dad has shown me how to pay l of our bills and all of the sites I would need to go to in order to do that , but he just does it from our joint account every month and he lets me know after he does it. I also have mobile access to our joint account so I can see everything that is coming in and out and when. If he were to ever suddenly die - I would be perfectly capable of affording my bills and would know how to pay all of them. 
- As for Caregivers , I think it is almost an engraved prideful thing to be able to provide financial support to their partners. Even if the little works - it seems as though Caregivers prefer to make more money than them so they feel as though they are a provider. (Even if a little can take care of themselves financially like myself , Dad sees himself as a provider and he makes MUCH more money than I but I do not need him to survive financially.) I think it is a very old school and sweet way of thinking. It can have a nasty side however just like wanting to dependent , the control and power than comes with being in charge of all of a relationships money can b a tricky thing and can easily be taken advantage of.

* Is being completely transparent about your finances and habits with spending important before getting into a serious relationship ?
- I would say so. Before I allowed myself to get into a serious committed partnership with Dad ( I reference Dad more than brother because Dad and I have a joint account even though brother helps financially as well ) I made sure to let him know that some of his habits would definitely need to change. When we first met - he still made a lot of money but he blew an entire paycheck at the casino…. I was dating him for maybe a few months at this point. I was completely appalled when he told me , and I told him that if we were to ever have an account together and had our name on bills together - he would NOT be blowing an entire paycheck on gambling. If you don’t know how responsible or irresponsible your partner is with money before making those serious commitments , you could be looking at negative checking account balances or credit card debt. You open an account with your partner without knowing that they have an issue spending more money than they have , spending it on frivolous and stupid things such as fast food , clothes they do not need , or unnecessary subscriptions…. You are now responsible for their financial immaturity. I would say it’s also beneficial to know how stingy your partner is , so you can compromise still being able to have fun and experience life. Dad has had to teach me some of that compromise , I would much rather hoard my money than go on a weekend trip somewhere , but I have made efforts in being able to let myself enjoy the money I have worked so hard for. 

* Do you expect your partner to have their finances in order before getting more serious or committed ? 
- I did , yes. I could not imagine letting myself get into a serious partnership without trusting that my other half would not dig myself or both of us into the ground. As stated above briefly , being financially responsible does not mean you are rich. I do not , have not , and would never expect my partner to provide for me or to be extremely wealthy. I am grateful that Dad , Brother and myself have well paying jobs - but the amount they make does not equate to how responsible any of us are with our money. When Dad and I first met , we didn’t make anywhere near as much as we do now. Dad had a good paying job , but it would be considered “middle class” pay I would suppose. While we were not well off -  we made smart choices with our money with each others support. We saved as much as we could ,  we did not go out to eat very often and when we did it was for a celebration or when we were so tired and it was so late that it made more sense to get something cheap and quick. We did NOT get into a more committed relationship until we both were on the same page about what we considered acceptable and responsible financial behavior , and when we took that step with each other we were dedicated to the plan we had set in place to better our future. 
- I would say that this also means that you should expect your partner to have a job. Does it need to be the best paying job in the world ? A full time - rise and grind , full blown 60 hour a week career ? Not in my opinion , no. Does every adult ( obviously excluding those who might have disabilities that prevent them from working) need to be making an effort to find job or have a job ? In my opinion , yes. Work is work , a paycheck is a paycheck. While I am very empathetic of peoples circumstances - in general… I am very firm with my view of work and work ethic itself. Especially with the decline of the amount of quality employees in the workforce these days , there is a lot of people who will complain (again for lack of better words) about not being able to find work or pay their bills , or make their way in the world… but from my experience when it truly comes down to the nitty gritty - anyone can truly get a job and at least TRY to support themselves. I mean for fucks sake - sex offenders and full blown hardcore felons go find jobs and start their life over and learn how to be responsible for themselves financially. If someone can’t even be bothered to try to support themselves - I do not believe they can put forth true effort in being able to support others. ( I understand there are nuances to this - but this is something I stand firm on and my mind will not be changed.) As someone who has no college education , came from a very traumatic childhood , which included financial trauma , is covered in tattoos (some offensive and some not so much) , with large stretched ears , mental health issues and crippling AVPD that somehow managed to land a job at a fucking financial institution after living in a constant (still do) crisis ……. I don’t see much reason why anyone else can’t buckle the fuck up and do it. I hold my partners to the same standard. I hold myself. 

* Do you think it can hurt a caregivers pride if you as a little are able to provide for yourself and are financially responsible ? 
- Mhm , I would say that littles who work full time well paying jobs and are able to support themselves can be extremely intimidating for some caregivers. I think it also creates a little more fear that a little is not afraid to leave or be on their own if the caregiver is not providing what they need emotionally , mentally and physically in the relationship. I have seen so often in relationships where one person will stick around only for the financial convenience or the fear they can’t make it alone. They will stay in unfulfilling or abusive relationships in order to stay financially stable. I know that me being a hard working and responsible individual scares the shit out of Dad. He knows that I do not *need* him - and while I want him and that makes him feel special , he knows there will not be any monetary ties that ever make me feel stuck. I will ALWAYS have a job despite his wishes for me to stay at home , and I will ALWAYS make sure that if he ever died I will be able to survive. 

I will be diving into some of these topics more in depth in their own threads as they have enough substance to do so , but for now these are some of the topic points I think that are extremely important before getting into a committed relationship where finances start to blend together with your partner. 

Have at it losers ! 

Edited January 20, 2024 by DaddysMonkey

[beanbean]

I think people say money does not matter are a little naive but it probably shouldn't be the main focus but it's important to be in line with your partner goals and financial goals .I will do what I can do for my little I do believe in  responsibility and good choices so it would be up to me talk about how debt and self control are important 

 

[xolilbunnyprincessxo]

I agree money does matter just like lifestyle and interests. You wouldn’t be in a relationship with someone whose lifestyle, interests, or goals didn’t match up with your own. I like certain lifestyle which I provide for myself and I like to have a partner on the same level financially with some of the same outlooks. Things that are important to me and that I look for in a partner is good financial habits like paying all bills on time, maintaining a reasonable budget, contributing to personal savings, low debt to income ratio. This is different for everyone though based on personal income, habits, and lifestyle and can always change over time. I for years used to rely solely on my partners for financial support but that was always an upfront first conversation that I didn’t work and wanted a partner capable of supporting me, there’s nothing wrong either way it’s just a matter of having those conversations so you have a partner that’s on board with your financial situation and habits. 

[chris23102310]

Money matters of course. 

Therefore I always Do the 3 Accounts model. Each Partner has his own account and having one together where both send money to and with this account you pay everything for both. So no partner can take out the money of the other. 

I agree that it must be discussed in a relationship how to Deal with money. 

I do not have a problem with my potential partner being unemployed and me paying. If there is a clear communication about it and my partner is doing other things they take care of. Housework, children, social activities... 

So both partner bring in their value, the value must not be money.

But it should be discussed early and be on the same Level for both and both agree on it.

[LittleOceans]

With having been financially abused before I now have questions that I ask and certain answers raise my red flags. 

red flag raisers are

• avoiding the topic 

• refusing to talk specifics ( debts, sources, cards, habits, etc.)

• secretive with the ins and outs

 • secret bank accounts 

• math doesn’t add up

I am the first one to always admit I have horrible impulse control. I am not frivolous, but when I need replacement items and I don’t have the means it’ll go on a card. I lived in a house where one did whatever it took to survive and make ends meet even if that meant writing hot checks. My PTSD, dissociation disorder, and autism all play a role in providing challenges in my abilities. Every job I’ve had that’s been over two months I’ve been fired from. I am having to think outside the box to figure out ways that I can provide for my child. I want to teach my baby healthy money habits. I want her to have a healthy relationship with money and financial stability. 

i am not financially healthy and it left me vulnerable to be taken advantage of. 

[beanbean]

Lucky for me I don't spend money like that .there are so many things that you could spend money on for the fifteen minutes  of joy but then what just try to make smart decisions. Can't overdo it tho bi for example but plenty of fishing stuff as you. You don't want to be miserable just responsible lol . And never let outside influence spend your money without out very carefully thinking about it those are just some of beans rules to live by 🤣

[pipsqueak79]

I've always been really bad with money but have never asked a daddy for money that I can recall.  I could be wrong because I have a bad memory.  But,  I try my best to remember that they've worked hard for what they have and need what they have.  I'm disabled and need every penny of what I get to survive.  Do I manage it well? No.  Do I need guidance there? Yes.  I would not be opposed to a daddy with good management skills giving me advice but I wouldn't give them control of my account because I'm not that trusting.  I think definitely in the beginning it's a topic best avoided or skimmed over.  

[Barney048]

I imagine finances are a much bigger issue in the states than here, since the system over there is made to have you work till you drop dead. From the lack of financial education to how easy it is to get loans/credit cards. None of the people here would be approved for 90+% of the loans/credits that most americans get. Here people usually take out 2 types of loans - >Mortages and car loans. Mortages are something most people take out, even if they have a decent pay. Stupid car loans are mostly taken out by retards that have to have an expensive BMW/Audi, even tho they're already living paycheck to paycheck. People generally don't take out micro loans to get by, or at least they don't stack them up like americans do. The minimum wage here is enough to lead a decent life without taking out any loans (mortgage aside), as long as you don't spend recklessly. Currently people willing to do physical labor jobs can earn A LOT, simply because noone wants to do it anymore (just gotta be smart about it). Everyone wants to earn money online or something. A buddy of mine started doin tiling as an independent contractor a couple years ago. Last year he made more money than most doctors make over here, while working half their hours. This is a random fact, but just throwing it out there.  I wouldn't do it, but someone that already likes doing house projects and hates his/her office job, may consider mastering a craft like that since it can be very lucrative. 

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about finances as a couple. Personally I am only attracted to strong independent women so never really dated anyone that needed to be supported nor would I want to. I was bothered when an ex spent 80% of her income on clothes/shoes. I didn't really say anything cause she was still self-sufficent with the remaining 20%. She had a high income and her living sittuation was taken care of (appartment owned by parents). That being said, I wouldn't get into a serious relationship with the kind of person that uses most of their money for instant gratification. I am someone who looks like a hobo on the surface 🤡 I buy the cheapest chlothes/shoes (as long as they're functional) and wear them until they are no longer usable, despite having an above average income. I live minimalisticly and invest most of my "spare" money. Sure there's an impulse buy here and there, we all have those + I put a certain amount aside for vacations and travels. Other than that I invest most and only have an emergency fund on my bank account. That too I sometimes invest, if I see a good opportunity. However then I grind for a couple months to fill up that emergency fund again. I live like that and will probably continue to do so untill I have enough passive income streams and assets where I can quit my job and still live comfortably. I don't expect my partner to share my ideoligy, but I do expect her to understand it and somewhat relate. Someone who spends most her money on instant gratification just wont. It's not why we broke up, but we would have eventually cause of that. As Monkey said, finances are important in a relationship. 

Another issue that the Monkey brought up was vulnerability due to no income. What I'd like to add is that it's vulnerability for both sides. 
Let's say I break up with a woman who I took care of financially. And let's that the break up was caused by her inappropriate behaviour (whatever it may be), with no fault of my own. She'd be thrown out with nothing to her name and no skills to rely on. At that point I would still have feelings for and would have a  moral obligation to keep supporting her untill she can stand on her own 2 feet, even if she refused. I would never want to put myself in a sittuation like that. 

Hurting a caregivers pride, hmm. I don't think this has anything to do with you being a caregiver, it's just male pride in general. Most men feel insecure if their partner makes more than them. If a guy feels that way it's okay as long as he puts it out in the open so that he can move past that. Communication is key as always. Tho I think this won't be an issue anymore in a few decades when the poppulation's mentality evolves as a whole. However you said whether it will hurt a caregivers pride if the little is just able to support herself. If THAT hurts a caregivers pride and makes him feel insecure, then that could be very unhealthy. Means he subconscious wants to control the little and keep her "caged". Ofcourse it still depends on how he handles it and whether he is open about it with the little. 

Anyway, my 💩s  over and my food will arrive in 10 mins. I'll say more durring some other bowel movement. 
 

[Guest Divinitus]

I'm fortunate enough to have the mindset of achieving my goals with patience, including saving up money for that very thing i want. I don't think its bad helping people a little bit who aren't by aiding them with money from time to time. 

[Northmand]

Very good point raised about what happens after one partner passes away. I've seen in families what happens when one person is the breadwinner/financial authority and then suddenly passes away - it creates confusion, panic, and scrambling to figure out the basics.

The answer to all financial issues is clear and open communication, knowing how everything works even if you don't take care of it yourself (or knowing where the information to do it is). Being in a serious relationship means being able to have these conversations, it is a condition of calling the relationship serious in my opinion.

This thread provides a great framework to have these discussionsn

[Suzette]

This is a relevant and informative message, however, I find that the woman or the man at home also defends himself! I am sick today, so I could not elaborate more, but I would add that the most important thing is that everyone brings value and that it suits everyone. Having difficulty keeping a job because of social anxiety and loving being at home, personally I would prefer to be a housewife (I specified woman, because it means having the charges of an adult as well), but indeed it would have to be financially viable. I earn it with difficulty but I manage it very well !

Edited yesterday at 02:16 AM by Suzette