"Fake" Doms, Sub-centric Kink, and Heteronormativity

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

My partner and I were talking about something the other day that really resonated with me: in the DDlg community, the focus seems to be very squarely on the littles, pets, and submissive types. And, she's absolutely right. All the posts and content I see are for littles and how to get what they want or to enhance their own little space, or for Bigs on how to treat their littles like perfect little angels. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this content -- I'm currently enraptured with the little journal thread floating around here. There are countless littlespace boxes and gear -- I should know, I run a shop -- but there are very few things for Bigs and Dom/mes. It seems really bothersome that the emphasis is squarely on the littles, as it takes at least two people to have a dynamic. This also goes along with the greater pressure to have a "perfect" relationship, the representations of which are typically of two cisgendered heterosexual people, a Dom and a baby girl.

 

I've also heard the phrase "fake" Dom tossed around all over the internet by people who have been rejected or reject those that don't meet their standards. If a person doesn't have all the time in the world to spend on their little, some littles will call their partner a fake. You never seen any posts about fake littles, but I see them all the time about "fake" Doms.

 

I would like to clarify that I do think fake Doms (and littles) exist, and those are the abusive people who are into dangerous practices, don't practice SSC, and are either looking for minors or are minors. Outside of that, people's identities are valid as they speak them.

 

I would love to hear from the greater community on this, Bigs and littles alike. What do you guys think? Dom/mes, do you feel underappreciated? Littles, do you feel the pressure to have a "perfect" dynamic?

Edited September 28, 2020 by yesdanithemani

[SmolAetherr]

the question is then, who are you to decide who is fake or not, can we just avoid such language since its incredibly easy for such a demeaning label to be tossed around, look at modern politics for examples

 

but i agree this sub is very well sub centric and its a shame, usually im hearing nothing but "how do i be better for my little" or little appreciation threads as i call them where a person makes a post literally celebrating the existance of littles and ignoring doms more often than not

 

there is also the sentiment that a daddy isnt a daddy unless a little give them the title which is utter bs, i am a daddy with our without a little just as a little is a little with or without a daddy/mommy

 

so to summarise, doms need love too

all this "fake" being tossed around needs to stop like.. completely stop regardless of the intent in the use of the word its encourging the invalidation of other people so thats about all that needs to be said about why it should completely stop

people need to stop invalidating the role of doms just because they do not have a sub/little

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

the question is then, who are you to decide who is fake or not, can we just avoid such language since its incredibly easy for such a demeaning label to be tossed around, look at modern politics for examples

I agree with most of what you have to say, but the label "fake" has a place, I think. Again, it should be reserved for the abusers, those who go after minors, those who don't follow safe practices, etc. Those people are fakes... Among other things.

[Little kaiya]

I would say in general DDlg seems to be centered around littles and efforts to have broader conversations are often ignored or squashed.

 

That said, my Daddy and i ensure we balance our relationship. It's just as much about Him as it is about me.

 

Honestly the overwhelming emphasis on the little side is one reason we don't post as much as we used to at the start. Too much emphasis on one aspect or the other leads to a lot of repetitive threads and it just isn't as engaging.

 

As for the pressure to have a "perfect" relationship. As a genderfluid, pansexual individual who is older than my Daddy who is a transgender, pansexual man . . . We never gave that ridiculous notion or expectation a thought as it's just so not worth the time.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Little kaiya

[ser_os]

I think DDlg is mainly centered on the little side. To me, this comes from how we represent DDlg, because is mainly represented with "little" things (just look at the background of this website), and because I find it very hard to think about somthing that represents DD, MD or CGs.

 

DDlg is also extremley heteronormative. Sometiemes the notion that DDs must be strong, mature, patient, stern, successful (I've even seen people saying that a DD mustto have a good job to be a "real" DD) and that littles must be petite, shy, clingy, needy, their favorite color is pink, etc., is annoying and dumb to say the least. There's no checklist you have to complete to be a CG or a little. Also there should be more spaces for MD and litle boys.

 

And with the real/fake thing, anyone who uses kink to take advantage of someone else without consent is a fake Top, Bottom, Dom/me, sub, whatever. If the term is overused is not important.

[Bearly]

There are a lot of littles who aren't actively in a dynamic, and it can be a lifestyle, while being the dom/caregiver/etc. isn't so much of a lifestyle and there isn't as much to it. Also, being an adult is the social norm while being little is a bit far out of social norm so resources are very specific for it. Heck, in the babyfur community, there is very little talk of caregivers compared to the DDlg community. Almost everyone in the babyfur community is little/switch. When I was purely a caregiver, I felt left out of spaces that were "littles only" but that's about it, and partly how I came around to giving in and being a switch.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Bearly

[Kitten&Spice]

I think it is a shame that things like “fake dom” is thrown around so freely. I have come to understand; and this is only an opinion, but I think that the comfort for Doms to talk freely just isn’t as accepting as it is for littles. I could be wrong but I am assuming that some Doms feel as if they were to be judged or maybe even harassed for saying some of the things that littles can say without concern.

 

This is just my opinion but I think that it is easy for some people to harass Doms about phrases like “fake little” then it is the other way. I think that fake littles should be talked about more. They do exist and they do an awful lot of harm as well. I actually have a friend who has experienced a fake little in the past. And it was hard to see the damage she left behind for him. It hurt me to see him lose trust and he almost the community altogether afterwards.

 

I think that we should allow this forum to be a safe space for Doms to express their worries and even talk about things like “Dom Aftercare.” They get wore out just as well as littles do and they are just as emotional and human as a little!

 

I would honestly love to see more dynamics and see Doms be able to say what is on their minds freely! As for the “perfect relationship” if I am being honest that doesn’t exist. No relationship is all sunshine and rainbows. I think expecting things to be a certain way is normal but you have to allow for room to grow. You can’t expect a dom to be the same as another. That just ain’t going to happen. People are unique and they feel and live differently. The key to a “healthy relationship” is communication, honesty, support, and trust! We should desire a healthy relationship over a perfect one.

[SmolAetherr]

There are a lot of littles who aren't actively in a dynamic, and it can be a lifestyle, while being the dom/caregiver/etc. isn't so much of a lifestyle and there isn't as much to it. Also, being an adult is the social norm while being little is a bit far out of social norm so resources are very specific for it. Heck, in the babyfur community, there is very little talk of caregivers compared to the DDlg community. Almost everyone in the babyfur community is little/switch. When I was purely a caregiver, I felt left out of spaces that were "littles only" but that's about it, and partly how I came around to giving in and being a switch.

it doesent have to be like that though, and i have to disagree with being a dom/caregiver not being a lifestyle.. it very much is.

[Guest]

im a bit neutral on this forum being sub- centric but I would love to see more doms and switches being active here. As of fake doms and littles I haven't come across that here (not knowingly at least) but im sure that it happens more often then we would all like and its very problematic. 

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

I think DDlg is mainly centered on the little side. To me, this comes from how we represent DDlg, because is mainly represented with "little" things (just look at the background of this website), and because I find it very hard to think about somthing that represents DD, MD or CGs.

 

DDlg is also extremley heteronormative. Sometiemes the notion that DDs must be strong, mature, patient, stern, successful (I've even seen people saying that a DD mustto have a good job to be a "real" DD) and that littles must be petite, shy, clingy, needy, their favorite color is pink, etc., is annoying and dumb to say the least. There's no checklist you have to complete to be a CG or a little. Also there should be more spaces for MD and litle boys.

 

And with the real/fake thing, anyone who uses kink to take advantage of someone else without consent is a fake Top, Bottom, Dom/me, sub, whatever. If the term is overused is not important.

 

I agree with everything you said! You can't please everyone with website design, but there isn't a lot of inclusivity. There is a "Caregiver Cafe" section of the forum and it seems to be filled with tips on how caregivers can be better for their littles, not how caregivers can be better for themselves, how they can find more resources, etc. I understand caregivers want to care for their littles -- but there is no appreciation for it, outside of the individual little being thankful for their partners.

 

There are a lot of unfair expectations for Doms - to be muscular or thin, to have aged "well", to be well-educated or make a lot of money, and more often or not, there is an unspoken rule for him (and typically him, there isn't a lot of room for her and they) to be white. The inverse expectations go for littles -- I can say as a well-educated person, I don't enjoy the assumption that I'm not.

 

Abusers are definitely fakes.

 

Thank you for replying!

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

I think it is a shame that things like “fake dom” is thrown around so freely. I have come to understand; and this is only an opinion, but I think that the comfort for Doms to talk freely just isn’t as accepting as it is for littles. I could be wrong but I am assuming that some Doms feel as if they were to be judged or maybe even harassed for saying some of the things that littles can say without concern.

 

This is just my opinion but I think that it is easy for some people to harass Doms about phrases like “fake little” then it is the other way. I think that fake littles should be talked about more. They do exist and they do an awful lot of harm as well. I actually have a friend who has experienced a fake little in the past. And it was hard to see the damage she left behind for him. It hurt me to see him lose trust and he almost the community altogether afterwards.

 

I think that we should allow this forum to be a safe space for Doms to express their worries and even talk about things like “Dom Aftercare.” They get wore out just as well as littles do and they are just as emotional and human as a little!

 

I would honestly love to see more dynamics and see Doms be able to say what is on their minds freely! As for the “perfect relationship” if I am being honest that doesn’t exist. No relationship is all sunshine and rainbows. I think expecting things to be a certain way is normal but you have to allow for room to grow. You can’t expect a dom to be the same as another. That just ain’t going to happen. People are unique and they feel and live differently. The key to a “healthy relationship” is communication, honesty, support, and trust! We should desire a healthy relationship over a perfect one.

 

All of this!! Dom space and Dom aftercare is really important and often neglected. It does seem like Doms don't have an opportunity to speak their minds about issues that affect them without fear of retribution. That's absolutely disgusting in this kind of community, where communication and respect is the foundation for our lifestyle.

[Vampiress]

I agree it is easier to show representation of CG/l from the little perspective because of the aesthetics. I think more littles have things in common than the Caregivers do. I can't think of much aesthetically that really encompasses most Caregivers.

 

I do believe the term "fake" has a place with predators and abusers. Those people are undeserving of the little and Caregiver titles. Incompatibility is not a good excuse to call someone a fake. Littles DO get called fake but I don't think most advertise when it happens to them. This has happened to me before for being assertive and sticking up for myself, and I've heard a few other littles say they have experienced it as well.

 

I don't think this forum is an unsafe place for Doms to express themselves. In my experience, Doms mostly seem to keep to themselves and opt to not share various things like stuff they've been working on or asking questions that are more focused on themselves than trying to please a little. You see littles posting stuff all the time from projects, colorings, questions, etc. I don't see anyone here trying to hold the Doms back from sharing more. I'd love to see Doms post the stuff they make or are working on or just hear more of their thoughts.

 

Generally, I support Doms taking a bigger part in the forums, but I think the lack of participation and sharing is more on their shoulders, as I do not see any littles pressuring them to keep it to themselves.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Vampiress

[daddymind]

I do sometimes question if I truly connect with the ddlg community at large. I'm a service sub who also happens to be a daddy for a little. So the dynamic I'm involved in is more "reverse" ddlg and a little more complicated. I'd like to see more dominant littles and submissive daddies speak up and more discussion on how daddies can ultimately serve and empower their littles, rather than simply dom them, because ultimately I believe littles can have a lot of power and control in this relationship (if they wish to claim it). And dom daddies can feel the guilt of taking advantage of someone who is already vulnerable from their past abuse, neglect or abandonment. I prefer to give control and power away rather than claim it absolutely. But I'm still a daddy because I have all the caregiving attributes that makes one. I just find the whole daddy dom thing a bit creepy if I'm honest, given how vulnerable littles are and where they've come from. That's not to say consensual ddlg is wrong - I understand it can be therapeutic for many littles. I just prefer to exist in this community as someone who is interested in caregiving and service towards someone with very specific needs, without the assumption that I have a desire to dominate or subordinate them just because I'm a straight male daddy.

[Frog]

I can only go by my past experiences, mostly in chat. It's why I left the site for a while. I haven't been in chat for a couple years, and a few of us didn't feel like we could discuss being daddies/caregivers. A couple of us were in fact told by some that we weren't "real daddies" because we didn't have littles. I've even gotten messages saying I was fake because of that. We had a couple tell us we could only refer to ourselves as "daddy types," but those few never said they had to be a "little type."

 

I'll admit that these are just the experiences for myself and a few others. For a while I kept in contact with others, but they haven't returned. I don't really read much here, and I don't go into chat. I'm hoping things have changed, though.

[Lollipox]

This gave me brain melt.

 

I dunno dude, I always figured people are capable of forming their own opinions and disagreeing with something if it doesn’t sound right to them. Grouping it all together to make out it’s a Community issue removes the individual’s accountability, and that feels counterproductive.

 

And there being more Little posts than CG posts just comes down to stats.

There’s a vast amount of Littles on the site vs CGs/Doms.

Unless I’m blind to some kinda weird taboo about CGs making posts, sharing content, starting discussions, asking questions and so on. I assumed it’s just because it doesn’t interest them, and there are fewer.

If they need a cheer squad just to post, then by all means I’ll don my cheerleader outfit and pom poms.

Would be great to see something in the Recent Topics besides Friend Zone ads.

 

My feeling valid as a Little doesn’t rely on whatever other people say to or about me. But right now I feel disappointed, and can’t even find the words to explain why.

 

Additionally: The POV that everything needs to be about the Little is what I was referring to re: formation of opinions. Not everyone thinks like that. I don’t think like that.

Because it’s ridiculous and just the opinion of those people. And contrary to belief, not everybody panders to that perspective on the lifestyle. I’ve seen plenty of people speak up and say “That’s not right, there needs to be a balance.”

But I’ve also been here for years and had the opportunity to see many differing opinions.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Poxapoideamesis

[CodeName: Trouble]

"be the change you wish to see in the world" or in this case "make the content you wish to see"

 

If a Dom thinks there isnt much content for them on this site, then they can make content for themselves and other doms to participate in! Reach out to each other! dont be shy! Whatever you have to say (as long as its respectful to others of course) is completely valid! You're part of this community toooo!

 

I do not like the word 'fake' because its so overused and used very inappropriately, much like the word 'stupid' being used instead of 'uninformed' - if someone is an abuser I think they should just be labeled as such, instead of 'fake' which is also used to attack someones identity which is just horrible. The word 'fake' has no place in my CG/L vocabulary. I'm very sorry to the Doms and littles who dont feel valid because of the cruel word of someone else. If the world needs anything, its more kindness.

 

As for being pressured to have a perfect dynamic, absolutely not. For me this is a lifestyle choice and I'm a pretty Independent little, and thou I might like a relationship that involves this dynamic in the future, I am more than capable of being alone and happy in my own little space. I'm also pansexual so    If how you define little space or exist in the dynamic is notably different than the main stream stuff you'd see online, thats okay <3 mine is, and from my experiance this site is pretty open minded to all kinds of alternative expression and variations in doing things- even if they arent the most popular. There is no right way to do things. This site might be focused a little more on DDLG specifically because its what the name attracts and the majority of the people here fall into that, but as a community I think its very accepting for the most part.

 

I believe that any problems with respecting others falls on individuals - we need to build each other up, not judge each other for our differences. If most of the people like pink and glitter and rainbows and want a perfect relationship, good for them. If you dont fall into that, good for you. Good for everyone. You're here, you're exploring and expressing your individual identity - and you are amazing. Just keep being you 

 

 Summery:  

- If the world needs anything, its more kindness.

- Make the content you want to see

- You are valid.

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

I guess part of my concern is for new people -- if there isn't any content posted about these things, how do they know that it's normal? Some of us don't like to post content also, for whatever reason.

 

I also reject the idea that it is purely up to the individual. I think as a community we should try to make sure certain people feel more included - Dom's, queer people, etc. - and we're letting each other down. The BDSM community needs community care too. We have to take care of each other.

 

A point that was addressed earlier is that a lot of Dom's don't feel comfortable making the content they want to see. I can't speak for them as to why, but it's apparent that they don't.

 

I appreciate all the respectful replies and I hope we can keep this conversation going! <3

[RavenclawPrincess]

I think there's an element of participation on this site that's being overlooked but is quite note-worthy. The personals section has 11117 topics last I checked, the most on the entire forum. I think that says a lot about the fact that the majority is here to look for a partner despite the fact that this isn't a dating site. From what I've seen, it's up to the individual to choose to participate in the community on a deeper level than just looking for a partner. There are caregivers that are here for more than just that, but they're definitely outnumbered by the littles that want to participate more freely with the community as a whole. I don't think that's an issue within the community, it's a matter of personal choice to only be here to search for a partner and there's nothing wrong with that, but it will have an impact on who we see posting and interacting with others out in the open. I will also say that the caregivers that do participate in the social circles that I frequent around here get just as much love as the littles, so there's also the factor of who we choose to associate with on a smaller level within the forum. It's kind of hard for the forum to not be centered around littles when that's the demographic of the majority that's participating in the community (according to what I've seen over the years I've spent here)

Edited September 29, 2020 by RavenclawPrincess

[baby_k]

I would say in general DDlg seems to be centered around littles and efforts to have broader conversations are often ignored or squashed.

 

That said, my Daddy and i ensure we balance our relationship. It's just as much about Him as it is about me.

 

Honestly the overwhelming emphasis on the little side is one reason we don't post as much as we used to at the start. Too much emphasis on one aspect or the other leads to a lot of repetitive threads and it just isn't as engaging.

 

 

 

Been off for while, so I'm not fully up to date on what has been going on here but I also probably haven't paid attention to this anyhow before. It sounds pretty bad if convos get ignored or squashed. The ignoring part I sort of get as if there is topic I don't have anything to say about ( like "how it feels to be dom" for I'm not a dom ), I won't. And if there is not many daddies/mommies/doms/... who participate in convos, well, not much one can do, I guess.

 

But this actually makes it even more important for those who can offer different view point to participate. It would be highly educational for all if we don't just repeat the same stuff and be blind to other solutions and views. When I read posts here, the ones I truly appreciate are the ones that offer me something new, something I couldn't think of myself. It's maybe hard to be the 'contrarian' but those people are truly needed in any community. And maybe we should show them more support, or at least try, in order to encourage them to speak up more.

 

Do you @Little kaya have any example of topics that should have broader convo btw? Or topics that got ignored? I mean it would be interesting to go those through, and see if we could discuss of them better, or if by merely activly trying and paying attention also the littles could add to topics they typically ignore or give way too onesided view.

 

I can only go by my past experiences, mostly in chat. It's why I left the site for a while. I haven't been in chat for a couple years, and a few of us didn't feel like we could discuss being daddies/caregivers. A couple of us were in fact told by some that we weren't "real daddies" because we didn't have littles. I've even gotten messages saying I was fake because of that. We had a couple tell us we could only refer to ourselves as "daddy types," but those few never said they had to be a "little type."

3 letter comment: wtf. >

 

Maybe should start or find convo about "what it is to be a daddy and what it means to be a daddy to you" And make sure it is not just the fluffy romantic "daddy fixes all" stuff.

 

Edit: found one: https://www.ddlgforum.com/topic/287-what-does-it-mean-to-you-to-be-a-daddy/ (NSFW)

Edited September 30, 2020 by baby_k

[Guest fhihfidhfd38478]

I can only go by my past experiences, mostly in chat. It's why I left the site for a while. I haven't been in chat for a couple years, and a few of us didn't feel like we could discuss being daddies/caregivers. A couple of us were in fact told by some that we weren't "real daddies" because we didn't have littles. I've even gotten messages saying I was fake because of that. We had a couple tell us we could only refer to ourselves as "daddy types," but those few never said they had to be a "little type."

 

I'll admit that these are just the experiences for myself and a few others. For a while I kept in contact with others, but they haven't returned. I don't really read much here, and I don't go into chat. I'm hoping things have changed, though.

 

That's the kind of experience I'm referring to -- I think a lot of Doms and caregivers don't feel like they can have these conversations. I think that there is a hidden taboo here, and the first few posters - those who were Dominants - seemed to give me that impression. I just thing as a community, not just this forum in a pocket of the internet, need to be more supportive and appreciative of the other half of the acronym.

[RavenclawPrincess]

That's the kind of experience I'm referring to -- I think a lot of Doms and caregivers don't feel like they can have these conversations. I think that there is a hidden taboo here, and the first few posters - those who were Dominants - seemed to give me that impression. I just thing as a community, not just this forum in a pocket of the internet, need to be more supportive and appreciative of the other half of the acronym.

 

I don't know what was going on back then but I'm in chat quite a bit nowadays and there's a lot of people that are really nice and supportive of everyone regardless of role in the lifestyle. I think one issue with it is that the vibe of the environment depends on the sort of people that are around, and we can't necessarily control that. Shitheads are allowed to be here as long as they're within the community rules, unfortunately for the people that don't want to have those sorts of interactions.  I think to some degree the best we can do is to be kind and supportive of everyone the best we can as individuals.

[Somewhatdiscreet]

My partner and I were talking about something the other day that really resonated with me: in the DDlg community, the focus seems to be very squarely on the littles, pets, and submissive types. And, she's absolutely right. All the posts and content I see are for littles and how to get what they want or to enhance their own little space, or for Bigs on how to treat their littles like perfect little angels. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this content -- I'm currently enraptured with the little journal thread floating around here. There are countless littlespace boxes and gear -- I should know, I run a shop -- but there are very few things for Bigs and Dom/mes. It seems really bothersome that the emphasis is squarely on the littles, as it takes at least two people to have a dynamic. This also goes along with the greater pressure to have a "perfect" relationship, the representations of which are typically of two cisgendered heterosexual people, a Dom and a baby girl.

 

I've also heard the phrase "fake" Dom tossed around all over the internet by people who have been rejected or reject those that don't meet their standards. If a person doesn't have all the time in the world to spend on their little, some littles will call their partner a fake. You never seen any posts about fake littles, but I see them all the time about "fake" Doms.

 

I would like to clarify that I do think fake Doms (and littles) exist, and those are the abusive people who are into dangerous practices, don't practice SSC, and are either looking for minors or are minors. Outside of that, people's identities are valid as they speak them.

 

I would love to hear from the greater community on this, Bigs and littles alike. What do you guys think? Dom/mes, do you feel underappreciated? Littles, do you feel the pressure to have a "perfect" dynamic?

 

I do often quietly feel like that doms are often underappreciated in pretty much every sizable ddlg circle. I think a lot of this has to do with the vicious cycle of ddlg is first and foremost usually framed as incredibly cis-het reinforcing traditional gender roles. People may like to say otherwise, but in my experience when someone says they want a "daddy" there's a very specific image that leaps into our heads as to what that is both physically and emotionally, it often leans on being a quietly stoic hyper-masc type.

 

Much like with any traditional roles, this isnt actually the case for a lot of people and they struggle to identify with the label of cg/dom as a result even without negative reinforcement from others that already exists.

 

I've noticed on a lot of communities you'll see posts like "not every little has to look like x" and "dont let anyone tell you you're not a real little" and so forth, yet the same people that share these posts around like wildfire then share images/memes that just reinforce the already everpresent steeortypical idealized dom memes exclusively. Does it bother me? Yeah, a little bit. Do I feel like I can talk about it? No, it'll make me look bad.

 

This gave me brain melt.

 

I dunno dude, I always figured people are capable of forming their own opinions and disagreeing with something if it doesn’t sound right to them. Grouping it all together to make out it’s a Community issue removes the individual’s accountability, and that feels counterproductive.

 

And there being more Little posts than CG posts just comes down to stats.

There’s a vast amount of Littles on the site vs CGs/Doms.

Unless I’m blind to some kinda weird taboo about CGs making posts, sharing content, starting discussions, asking questions and so on. I assumed it’s just because it doesn’t interest them, and there are fewer.

 

You know, I'm not even sure that that itself is true the stat difference - it wouldn't surprise me *at all* to find out there's still more caregivers that are active that just actively lurk even after filtering out all the weirdos who join the site for other nefarious reasons. I think that even in a perfect world little representation in ddlg communities would be a bit over represented because doms seldom are trying to make more dom friends, whereas littles often are looking to make other little friends. I'd love to see a data analysis on the site, I'd be fascinated to see what the findings were.