I feel the need to say it louder for the people in the back: The "Fake daddies" Issue

[beanbean]

I fully agree that misusing the term is a problem.  the anti "fake daddy" crowd seems to want to ignore that in favor of the misused version. the people that miss use it should be called out as much as the fakes. 

and i don't think anybody here thinks there are no fake ones .just that it kinda being used to to discredit daddy's ,at to me is wrong because some people act like there not Dom's enough or something and that's a fake daddy and that to me is wrong

Edited July 9, 2020 by beanbean

[baby_k]

I don't understand how fake would in anyway be same as predatory But I'm not a native English speaker

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake  ( SFW )

"not true, real, or genuine"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fake ( SFW )

"Fake is a word to describe people who aren't themselves in order to gain..."

https://www.lexico.com/definition/fake ( SFW )

"Not genuine; imitation or counterfeit. --- (of a person) claiming to be something that one is not."

 

Predatory is way better for really shady behaviour as it collects under it imo lot more things that can be severly harmful. And using proper words that really describe the issue is far better than watery term of "fake" that merely says someone one is being some sort of impostor ( imo ).

 

Fake imo would be person who is, and knows themselves to be, totally vanilla but who comes to this site and pretends to be daddy/little/something-they-are-not just for the lulz. Where as people often claimed to be fake hardly are that sort of impostors but just have different view of ddlg, are new or something else that is not specificly tended to be pretending. ( Okay, they may pretend as part of role play which again imo is part of ddlg. So, pretending is not bad either if it is part of play nd one wants to play that role ).

 

The example of someone coming to little with "hey baby girl (to random girl) obey me because I am a daddy and you have to do what I say. You can't do that, you are too little to do that." may be creepy and annoying but that is not being fake. That is just person probably looking for some sort of hook up in ddlg style. Most may not enjoy that, and most probably would see that as bad manners but that's all it is: bad manners. ( Reason to teach littles to just ignore and block those people is that most likely there is issue with compatibility in case the other one looks for relationship or longer term dynamic instead of 5min fun + bad manners is never a good sign anyhow ).

 

Saying someone is fake little for example would mean we have to have defination of little. As far as I know, little is just term one can identify themselves with if they like. -> only that person can define if they really are fake and trying to be something they are not. And even then the term is pretty brutal as there are tons of littles with selfdoubt who wonder if they are "real" littles, and who are really struggling.

[Bearly]

My friend legitimately had a fake daddy. He pretended to be a daddy and then tried to scam her for money and/or use her for money laundering. THAT is a fake daddy.

[Vampiress]

I have to agree, to me a fake Daddy is a predator claiming to be a Daddy and using DD/lg as an excuse for sexual harassment, abuse, manipulation, etc. I wouldn't use it against someone that has a compatability issue but we do have predators in the community who will act really poorly towards littles, or ones who seek out the minors who try to join the community. They are fake because they are using the lifestyle as an excuse and reason to behave awfully and illegally sometimes. Because DD/lg is part of the BDSM community we must respect the rules of safe, sane, and consensual. There is no consent when a predatory person acts that way and the BDSM community DOES shun people for breaking the rules and treating others with zero respect to boundaries and consent. These people are also considered predators and fakes, they would never be recognized as a Dominant. Same goes for manipulative submissives.

[RavenclawPrincess]

Rather than continuing to debate what exactly constitutes a “fake daddy”, let’s turn this conversation into something that’s actually helpful. The reality is, use of such a vague term that gets used inappropriately doesn’t do anything. Let’s look at WHY use of that phrase is an issue, and what can be done in instances where someone feels the need to throw it around. In itself, use of the term “fake” is fine when it’s understood what exactly that means. Here’s the kicker, the term NEEDS to be used as an opener to a bigger conversation. “Fake” on its own does not make it clear what the issue was. It is not a term that is specific, it offers no critique, and offers no instruction on how to correct or avoid a social or behavioral issue. In all honesty, throwing around this term on its own is counterproductive and is a blatant avoidance of acknowledging the problem at hand. And frankly, it’s intellectually lazy to use in my opinion when not accompanied with effective communication.

 

Why use of this phrase is harmful to someone that is trying to cope with a problem that they are having/did have with someone.

 

A very important element of dealing with a bad situation is understanding what the problem is so we can learn from it and move on. Let’s take a look at how the use of the phrase “fake daddy” isn’t productive to the person that needs to deal with their encounter with that “fake” person.

 

When discussing a problem, many therapists will simply not focus on adjectives used such as “toxic”. Instead, therapists will prompt their clients to discuss the problem more thoroughly because adjectives alone don’t necessarily explain the problem, nor do they help us deal with the emotional aftermath. They’ll ask questions such as “what did the other person do?” and “let’s discuss what caused you to feel this particular way” to direct the conversation toward looking at the objective facts as to what happened based on cause and effect, rather than allowing it to be based on throwing around adjectives in the name of emotional response alone. 

 

Labels keep the focus on others, not ourselves. When coping with a bad situation who do we need to focus on, ourselves or the person that we just blocked for being “fake”? It’s SO important for us to fully process a situation that caused us emotional harm, and we can do that for ourselves in some instances rather than paying a therapist to do it for us. I’m not negating the value of seeking professional help at all, especially when bigger trauma is involved that needs to be worked out. However in smaller incidents, such as encountering a “fake daddy” that upset us, we can and should be able to work through that situation without the help of a professional. There’s a reason that people are encouraged to talk about what’s bothering them. We can do this with a friend/loved one, a therapist, or with ourselves in a journal (just to give an example of doing this independently). Part of what makes this strategy so helpful is when a problem we have had is thoroughly discussed and analyzed, we validate how the incident made us feel with objective facts. “This person was fake” simply doesn’t get the job done like phrases such as “This person made me feel manipulated/unsafe because they did x, y, and z”. This type of discussion of a bad incident also serves as a means to help us learn from it, which is very important. With the evaluation of the actions someone took and how they made us feel, we are now potentially armed with knowledge of some red flags that we can watch out for in the name of not getting so far into the same situation again. We won’t need x, y, and z to happen in order to know how it’ll make us feel. Action x alone can prompt us to take a step back from that person rather than waiting for more bad things to happen, thus insuring that we don’t have to deal with something quite as bad as the previous incident. 

 

Why calling someone a fake isn’t helpful to them either

 

Call out culture is freaking huge right now. It can be helpful, but a lot of the time it is done ineffectively, thus negating the purpose of doing so in the first place. Many experts are calling for a shift from simply calling someone out to calling someone in. Calling-in refers to having a conversation with someone that we deem to be causing us a problem. In the context of “fake daddies”, how many people have been called out for doing something wrong when the fact is that they simply didn’t know better? I know personally, I have met a LOT of people that were new to BDSM culture after a sparked interest from mainstream media that provides misinformation, such as “Fifty Shades of Grey”. These people don’t have malicious intentions by default, and I feel that as a community we have a responsibility to correct people that have been misinformed when it is safe to do so. In this instance, simply calling someone “fake” is not valuable. That is simply following call-out culture. We need to explain what the problem is with an unsavory behavior or attitude and why it is wrong so the person can correct the issue at hand. That is following the concept of call-in culture and I personally see that as far more valuable. For those that have an open mind and are sincere about wanting to be a good member of the community, constructive criticism is gold. We need to keep in mind that we are human, and with that mistakes will happen and we aren’t going to be good at everything right away. We all have room to learn and grow, and we can help each other do that. The beauty of being active in this community is we have quick and easy access to more experienced people, as well as better information than what we have just on our own. 

 

How should we go about it if we insist on calling someone a “fake daddy”?

 

First off, we need to look at what we hope to accomplish by doing so. If calling someone “fake” isn’t doing anything productive, then we are simply attacking them and there’s no point in that, so don’t bother. Why should we act like a bad person just because someone else did?

 

Strategy #1: If someone is a danger to you, simply cut off communication. You do not have to explain yourself in that scenario, and it’s better to just go ahead and disengage from the interaction with that person. It’s easier to do that rather than engaging in malicious behavior and then protecting ourselves afterward. Safety is more important than saying something sassy that isn’t going to fix the problem at hand. It's also very important to take screenshots of the incident and report it to the staff. We do not want unsafe people here and the staff are happy to take care of those people. However, they can't do their job if they don't know that someone is being predatory or causing harm to others. We all need to do our part to keep this community safe and reporting people as needed with screenshots to prove the issue is the best way to do that.

 

Strategy #2: If the intent is to call someone out for the sake of correcting their behavior, we can do that. By all means, tell the person that you think they’re a “fake daddy”. But that needs to be accompanied by the strategy of calling-in if your intent is to do something productive. It’s important to explain in specific terms what they did wrong and why it is wrong. Be the bigger and better educated person with knowledge to share. That’ll do a lot more to help someone see the error of their ways and make a positive change. Do not do this if interacting with the person will cause you harm or puts you in any danger whatsoever. 

 

[Vampiress]

You are being awfully generous here. Especially with the predatory types, they should definitely know better due to logic and reason. Considering we're all supposed to be adults here, we should all be aware of consent and respecting boundaries. These people literally do not care and tend to react very badly to being told what they are doing wrong. It is common sense to not go after minors. It is common sense to not sexually harass another. It is common sense to know not to use others. People do it anyways because they have some sense of entitlement I suppose or just simply do not care.

[RavenclawPrincess]

You are being awfully generous here. Especially with the predatory types, they should definitely know better due to logic and reason. Considering we're all supposed to be adults here, we should all be aware of consent and respecting boundaries. These people literally do not care and tend to react very badly to being told what they are doing wrong. It is common sense to not go after minors. It is common sense to not sexually harass another. It is common sense to know not to use others. People do it anyways because they have some sense of entitlement I suppose or just simply do not care.

 

I will openly admit and own the fact that I am inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. However, there is no disputing that some people really are just bad people, hence my proposal of strategy #1. I think it's all safe to say that we can use common sense to evaluate whether or not someone is a danger and respond appropriately.

 

However, not EVERYONE that does something wrong is simply a predator. There are, in fact, people unjustly being called fake and I felt the need to address that as well. 

[Vampiress]

If we are truly being helpful why not address the issue with littles also being misconstrued as fake just for not doing what they're told or what a Daddy wants? This is a much larger issue that encompasses every single role in the community.

[RavenclawPrincess]

If we are truly being helpful why not address the issue with littles also being misconstrued as fake just for not doing what they're told or what a Daddy wants? This is a much larger issue that encompasses every single role in the community.

 

I'd like to know the exact same thing, actually! I NEVER see the term "fake littles" thrown around as loosely. That's actually a big part of my issue with the term "fake daddies". People will bother to discuss how a little is misbehaving in detail from what I've seen, but many daddies just get dismissed with the label of fake. Make no mistake, there are just as many people that identify themselves as little that behave with malicious intent as there are daddies that do the same. Littles are also capable of being predatory, using someone for personal gain, scamming people for money, collecting daddies, etc. So why the difference in how we talk about the two roles? I don't really see why there isn't more equality with those conversations and I'm very interested in hearing what everyone has to say about that as well. 

[Vampiress]

I think littles are more open to publicly throwing a fit and using the term fake daddy. In my experiences, Daddies tend to handle things personally and one on one with their little and may not openly express their feelings on that little being a fake. I have in fact had this term used against me as an insult and was even told I must be a Mommy Domme. I didn't come to forums crying about it though, I handled it privately.

[baby_k]

It might be something to do with gender or the dominant/"strong" role: men are seen weak and pathetic if they go name calling "fragile little girl" publicly. It makes them look bad in the eyes of other men/dom/daddies and also littles/women... Where as you get more chreering and head patting if you go as little to say that you encoutered someone nasty ( and call them fake ).

 

( I have seen a lot of that fake little term too, just not on this site luckily. )

 

 

 

 

I'm off-topicing again, seems like a habit of mine.....

 

I want to also comment on the calling-in thing:

 

it's a good thing to do but I struggled to learn out from it actually. I have put awfully lot of energy into people who were rude or tried to ignore my boundaries. I told them off, explained what they were doing was not nice and so on ( honestly speaking I don't think there was single one of them really caring that I did it even I thought they would want me to help them in such way...). It totally wore me down as I was considering them way too much on the cost of myself.

 

Someone actually told me "you are not their parent, not your job to teach them manners" which I found to be eye opener: I didn't have to do that but could just leave the situation and even ghost if I felt like it without that making be a horrible person. ( Okay, maybe no ghost but tell them that you will cut contact, and then 'ghost' in order to actually be respectaful adult ).

 

So, just as side note for someone who is like me: even it's great to do that calling-in, never do it on the cost of yourself. Just leaving the situation is good, and there is no expection to do the calling-in.

[RavenclawPrincess]

I think littles are more open to publicly throwing a fit and using the term fake daddy. In my experiences, Daddies tend to handle things personally and one on one with their little and may not openly express their feelings on that little being a fake. I have in fact had this term used against me as an insult and was even told I must be a Mommy Domme. I didn't come to forums crying about it though, I handled it privately.

 

That's definitely a valid point! That makes a lot of sense. The point that I can't account for with that whole thing is that other CG's will call a CG a fake, and you'll see the term fake daddy thrown around so much in conversations around the forum by quite a lot of people. Can we at least be fair and do the same to littles if that's how we're going to talk about people that do something wrong? I legitimately don't understand.

 

It might be something to do with gender or the dominant/"strong" role: men are seen weak and pathetic if they go name calling "fragile little girl" publicly. It makes them look bad in the eyes of other men/dom/daddies and also littles/women... Where as you get more chreering and head patting if you go as little to say that you encoutered someone nasty ( and call them fake ).

 

( I have seen a lot of that fake little term too, just not on this site luckily. )

 

 

 

 

I'm off-topicing again, seems like a habit of mine.....

 

I want to also comment on the calling-in thing:

 

it's a good thing to do but I struggled to learn out from it actually. I have put awfully lot of energy into people who were rude or tried to ignore my boundaries. I told them off, explained what they were doing was not nice and so on ( honestly speaking I don't think there was single one of them really caring that I did it even I thought they would want me to help them in such way...). It totally wore me down as I was considering them way too much on the cost of myself.

 

Someone actually told me "you are not their parent, not your job to teach them manners" which I found to be eye opener: I didn't have to do that but could just leave the situation and even ghost if I felt like it without that making be a horrible person. ( Okay, maybe no ghost but tell them that you will cut contact, and then 'ghost' in order to actually be respectaful adult ).

 

So, just as side note for someone who is like me: even it's great to do that calling-in, never do it on the cost of yourself. Just leaving the situation is good, and there is no expection to do the calling-in.

 

Oh, absolutely! Anyone that isn't equipped to deal with calling someone in should not do so. Never ever ever sacrifice your emotional or mental health like that. That strategy is best used by people that can emotionally handle it and won't be harmed by engaging in the conversation. 

[Vampiress]

Oh of course. If a "little" is just here to use and abuse caregivers I would just as equally call them a fake as much as I would the predatory "caregivers." I'm all for treating all roles equally with that standard of respecting boundaries and the rules of safe, sane, and consensual. I'm not giving anyone a pass on that behavior. That's why in my very first response I made sure to also include littles in that. I think littles also use that against each other. It's a form of gatekeeping and entitlement. We don't get to define what being a Daddy or a little is for other people, except when it crosses the line of predatory behavior. At that point I feel like they no longer belong nor do they deserve to be recognized or acknowledged as part of the community.

[RavenclawPrincess]

I am in 100% agreement with you, a predator is simply a predator. They should be called as such, full stop. I can't reconcile calling someone fake in my own head though. I feel very strongly about calling a spade a spade rather than using terms that don't get straight to the point of being clear on what kind of behavior someone is exhibiting. In conversation when someone says "I was just talking to a fake daddy and he made me so upset", that doesn't make it clear that the person was being predatory or whatever problematic behavior was taking place. Hell, that could mean any number of things that don't actually constitute predatory or abusive behavior. I'm hoping more people will chime in with examples of being unjustly called fake to help clarify that point more. You were called fake, but not by exhibiting behaviors that the people here discussing why we should use the term fake are talking about. Bean said that he was called fake just because he's a switch. Things like that happen ALL the time, that's why I feel so strongly about having conversations where behaviors and problems are specifically outlined and discussed. People simply aren't using the term "fake" across the board only in instances where it's appropriate to do so and as a way to identify a predator or abusive person. 

[Vampiress]

I understand the point you're trying to make but we disagree on what the real issue is. Instead of saying we shouldn't use the word fake, we need to very clearly define this as a community and correct when it's used wrongly. A predator is a fake hands down. Shouldn't be in the community. Shouldn't be deceiving others into thinking they're in this for the right things. I would definitely call someone out for saying someone is a fake just because they're incompatible or getting upset over someone not wanting what they want, or not getting their way. It is not wrong to tell a predatory they're fake, and if anyone ever asks me what a fake Dom or Caregiver is I will tell them exactly that it is a person who is a predator.

[RavenclawPrincess]

I understand the point you're trying to make but we disagree on what the real issue is. Instead of saying we shouldn't use the word fake, we need to very clearly define this as a community and correct when it's used wrongly. A predator is a fake hands down. Shouldn't be in the community. Shouldn't be deceiving others into thinking they're in this for the right things. I would definitely call someone out for saying someone is a fake just because they're incompatible or getting upset over someone not wanting what they want, or not getting their way. It is not wrong to tell a predatory they're fake, and if anyone ever asks me what a fake Dom or Caregiver is I will tell them exactly that it is a person who is a predator.

 

That's the differentiation between you and other people. You're such a smart person and you will explain what you're talking about to begin with. When you use the term fake, I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with it. I think ultimately, we DO agree on what the issue is in a roundabout way. How to go about fixing the issue is the disconnect here. I think I've proposed some good ways to counter the root of the problem, but so have you and that's totally fine. I'd much rather have conversations out there that makes it clear that there's a problem, and offers multiple ways to go about countering the problem. Perhaps some people will realize that on an individual basis, they need to either use the term fake correctly and be ready to offer an explanation to show that it's being used correctly (your way of going about it), or retire the use of the term from their normal vocabulary as a means of ensuring that the term isn't used incorrectly and opting to explain things more specifically from the get-go (my way) then it's all good.

Edited July 9, 2020 by RavenclawPrincess

[beanbean]

to be the big takeaway  here. if something happens to you with a predator report every time it saves people heartbreak.do it