Vanilla dating - Difficulties and struggles

[Guest Little Otter]

Hi,

 

So I am an LB, and I have been talking to this woman I met at work. She's vanilla Im pretty sure. I do like her, she has a great personality and she's a very kind and caring person. I am holding back though, because in thirty years of consistent vanilla dating I understand that dynamic will not work for me (or most littles tbh). I think the biggest issue is the fact that women tend to lean submissive, even those that are vanilla. In my experience dating mostly vanilla women, they still always had *some* semblance of submissive behavior. That was the root of my relationship problems, the power dynamic was out of whack. I have always been a sub, but didn't really understand it. I hitherto believed I was just weird, but recently it has all made sense. Typically they would attempt to give me some modicum of power, even if only slightly and I never wanted it. So our sex life was terrible and they'd end up cheating with a guy that leans dominant. I am afraid of a repeat of this with the woman I am talking to now.

 

I was talking to my ex (who's a little), and she was telling me shes been dating vanilla men. I asked how that works, but she told me that even vanilla men are willing to do some kinky dom stuff. It makes sense, when we talk about vanilla I think we tend to forget no one is 100% without kinks, or exists outside the boundaries of dom/sub altogether. Men tend to lean dom, and woman sub even if slightly. So a for my ex (an LG) it's an OK arrangement for her (she said its temporary). She can get some sense of fulfillment from the little bit of dom behavior a vanilla man can give.

 

Now my concern: I am a submissive boy. I don't really have that option. Womens' submissive proclivities will restrict me from even casual dating, the power exchange will be out of balance and we'll both me unfulfilled altogether (as has been a common theme my whole life). So now I feel a bit discouraged. I feel as if my dating pool is cut down to like .02% of the population (or whatever minute number). 

 

So what do I do? Seek a woman simply because she's a Mommy/Domme? Well that's not a foundation to work from, since I am still a unique individual with plenty of personality and interests that expand outside the scope of being a little/sub. Yet finding a compatible woman that is willing to be dominant at some capacity seems like a feat comparable to climbing Everest.

 

I feel extremely discouraged, and times like this make me wish I wasn't a little. I love being a little overall, but it seems like finding love is an impossibility for me. And when I meet a woman that Im compatible with, our sexual/dynamic incompatibility crushes any chance of something meaningful. 

 

I am mostly venting I think, but if anyone has any stories or input or two-cents it would be appreciated. 

[Guest DaddySadist]

*unable to help but laugh in a non malicious manner*

 

Boy are you running in the wrong crowds then, I could rattle off a list of women I know that are no where near submissive.

 

Here's a few suggestions although admittedly some might be obvious or things you've already done in the past.

 

Specifically regarding this girl....have you considered dating her and then before anything intimate happens perhaps telling her of your proclivities? I don't know what her job is but if she's in charge at work some people, man or woman, like to be the opposite at home. If she's in no power at work, maybe she wants the power in her personal life. My ex was SUPER dominant in everyday life so out in public we were always on equal footing but in our home she was submissive.

 

Next, Fetlife. You may already have done this but depending on where you live there's likely a large kink community in your area and I'm sure through Fetlife you'd find someone close enough that would tick enough, or all, of your boxes in regards to dating.

 

Last, and related to the previous one, your local kink community. Even if it's a drive, like the biggest events near me are 90min away, there's a community in your area and if you started to go to the events I know you could find someone there to date that suited you. No guarantees on it working out of course but you get the point.

 

Anywho.....there's my two cents, I expect change!!!!

 

*chuckling*

Edited May 2, 2018 by DaddySadist

[Guest Little Otter]

*unable to help but laugh in a non malicious manner*

 

Boy are you running in the wrong crowds then, I could rattle off a list of women I know that are no where near submissive.

 

Here's a few suggestions although admittedly some might be obvious or things you've already done in the past.

 

Specifically regarding this girl....have you considered dating her and then before anything intimate happens perhaps telling her of your proclivities? I don't know what her job is but if she's in charge at work some people, man or woman, like to be the opposite at home. If she's in no power at work, maybe she wants the power in her personal life. My ex was SUPER dominant in everyday life so out in public we were always on equal footing but in our home she was submissive.

 

Next, Fetlife. You may already have done this but depending on where you live there's likely a large kink community in your area and I'm sure through Fetlife you'd find someone close enough that would tick enough, or all, of your boxes in regards to dating.

 

Last, and related to the previous one, your local kink community. Even if it's a drive, like the biggest events near me are 90min away, there's a community in your area and if you started to go to the events I know you could find someone there to date that suited you. No guarantees on it working out of course but you get the point.

 

Anywho.....there's my two cents, I expect change!!!!

 

*chuckling*

 

Why you laugh >.< lol

 

Well, yeah I guess I have. I think part of my past problem is my public persona I am a very assertive and stoic person. I come off as dom according to some exes. I have to be though, it was a survival mechanism growing up, and now my job requires it. 

 

That gives me a little hope, the fact you can chuckle and realize how off-base my assessment is. Perhaps you're right and it's just my personal experiences. I am going to a munch tonight, but I guess my concern is that I'll meet a Domme and that's all we'll have in common. Like one girl I was talking to recently, there was no basis for a relationship there.

 

I told this girl that I am not a dominant person despite being normal for men, I was trying to dog whistle a bit. She said "That's OK, Im not dominant at all either" so clearly she didn't understand which is why I know she's vanilla lol. I *hope* she's conflating dominant with controlling, and perhaps she doesn't understand what being dom means and entails, and perhaps a deeper convo can bring out that side in her?

 

Thanks for the advice, I suppose you're right and I should just engage in kink communities more.

[Child Of Light]

I have met a few Submissive Males in the power exchange community.. Most waited a couple of years to tell their vanilla S/o the desires and gave their romantic partner the option of trying it out or asking if they could seek a platonic parental figure.Myself personally am dating a vanilla man, whom isn't/ wasn't very Dom like when we started dating but was more than willing to try kinky things as we got closer. It was still a bit of a hard road of explaining. It also might mean that compromise of desires might need to happen (i.e she might need your dom like during certain aspects of the relationship -- my partner does), and we have to separate mindsets for that.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Child Of Light

[Littlest_Bee]

Well, I myself have some switch tendencies and I've been with submissive men and vanilla guys in the past and both worked out well enough from my perspective. But I'm pretty bratty and pushy even as a submissive so *shrugs*

I have yet not met any person that fits neatly into a pre-labeled box. If I get to know someone well enough I always discover new facets. (Of course I can't exactly dispute the conclusion that it's easier for submissive women in the dating pool because I am female and lean more towards submission.)

 

I do know that there are women out there who would absolutely adore someone like you submitting to them in private and being their big, strong boyfriend in public. Nobody would doubt that you are on your knees because that's where you want to be and to a certain kind of people that would basically be "the dream".

 

The most important thing is that when you meet the right person there's still all the communication you need. It's important that you feel completely safe.

 

 

I don't know if this was helpful at all but - just my thoughts.

[Guest Little Otter]

Thank you its very helpful.

 

Its just hard not to be jaded. I dont wanna sound braggy, but ive never had an issue getting with women, its just EVERY time they seem to try and hand me power I dont want. And the harder they try, the more turned off I get. Even vanilla women. Theyve all expected me to be the assertive and dominant one. Sometimes mildly, sometimes severely. I always thought I was bad cuz I couldnt deliver, like Im less of a man or something, but it all makes sense now.

 

I guess one thing I didnt consider is the fact I didnt know I was sub, so Ive never tried to engage that with my partner. I just brushed off their attempts to give me control and never accepted and tried to discuss this side of me.

[Guest Looby-Lou]

I don't have a magic answer for you, but just want to give you some encouragement and support as you search for your compatible partner.

I think everyone struggles to find the right person, and we often question things about ourself or the other person.  For you, it might be harder, because as you said a lot of women lean to sub and a lot of men lean to dom.

BUT there are many many women who are very assertive & like to be in charge.  I've got a feeling that if you're able to show your sub/vulnerable/compliant side more often, then you will start to "provoke" (in a good way) the assertiveness in some women you meet.  

If you're not able to do this in your role at work, can you do it a bit more when you're  socialising outside of work? 

Sometimes just the smallest thing can inspire a response in someone.  The way you speak, what you say, your body language. Of course you want to feel comfortable, and not put yourself in a risky situation. But if you send out the signals, even some subtle ones to begin with, you might get some great results! I do hope so

[Guest Little Otter]

UPDATE: Welp, a woman asked for my number earlier this week and tonite she told me, guess what, that SHES A SUB. I really need to like, redo my appearance or something IDK why I attract submissive women so much. We're gonna have a discussion about how we may be able to manage that if possible, but I am not getting my hopes up. I wanna cry :'(

[Guest Babykitkat 23]

OH NOOOO, don't cry!!!!

 

Perhaps you put on a brave face in public and that's what draws these types of people towards you. Seeing stoic and a strong typing of person can bring on a lot who want to give that power....or some who they believe "who knows how to give it"...I'm just guessing, but maybe give your self more room to be sensitive. Show more of your soft side or sub side....not like what you do at home, but show a little more venerability....this could draw a whole different crowd.....but never be afraid to just ask. Be your self. If it doesn't work out, then you just haven't meet the right person. There's still a lot to discover, so don't be sad. I wish you the best of luck.

[Guest danithebrat]

Something I have learned in my many years of experience (okay I'm only 19 but hear me out) is that being a top, bottom, sub, Dom, little or Caregiver is simply not something you can change. Moreover, for many people, it is something that carries past the bedroom and into that person's daily life. It affects not only your romantic relationships, it can shape your personality and can even bleed over into a career. I know many DD's and MD's have caring, service jobs while other littles may have more independent jobs that allow them to tinker and explore. 

 

It isn't "just a kink," it is part of who you are. You don't have to get freaky-deaky with everyone you ever talk to, but chances are it does affect your conversations, and if you are putting up a wall of strong and stoic, you might not be happy with those same relationships. Not everyone needs to know your kinks, but the important people in your life need to accept you for who you are, whether that means you are submissive, shy, or even feminine. 

 

Sub(heh puns)sequently, being a submissive man or a dominant woman doesn't make you any less of who you are. I hate to fit the stereotype of a queer person that announces it as at every opportunity, but, as a genderqueer little, that's something that hits me in a sore spot.

 

A man who is a submissive is not less of a man, regardless of what he wants in the bedroom, whether he likes to dress up like a girl, likes other men, or even identifies as a different gender in little space. 

 

And a woman who is dominant is still a woman, regardless of her sexual preferences. She can be a Daddy, she can be a Mommy, she can want her little any way that she wants them and she is still valid. 

 

To kick my soapbox back into the closet and offer more practical advice:

1. As soon as intimacy is discussed, so should your BDSM status. If you only like the Dommes and the Mommies, then you only like Dommes and Mommies. If she thinks that you have to "take her like a man" then she can find someone who will. If she thinks that your preferences aren't valid, then not only is she not the lady for you, she is also a grade-A homegrown left buttcheek piece of work.
2. It can be a struggle to be friendly and nice and also not come off as gay. It is a struggle of the weird society that we live in, especially if you are a well-dressed man who takes care of himself. My best bit of advice would be to let down your guard a bit if you think the lucky lady you're interested in is worthy. Worst case scenario is you have to clarify your sexual orientation. 'least it would be an icebreaker for bedroom stuff.
3. Most women that are Dommes or MD's, in my limited experience, have careers that would match that. This is really a hit and miss process and much more of a gamble than online, specific dating, though. Not all Dommes are CEO's and not all Mommies are preschool teachers, but I'd look for teamleaders, ladies that make important decisions like managers, or those in healthcare that deal directly with people. Begrudgingly, this is the least helpful thing I have to offer.

Sorry about my huge rant, and I wish everyone in the vanilla world the best of luck.

Edited May 10, 2018 by danithebrat

[Guest Little Otter]

Thanks Dani, 

 

Yeah the whole cultural normal of the man/woman dynamic is something I am chipping away at. I had a big masculine wall up for three decades, and I never even liked it! It was necessary for a time, but I keep reminding myself that I am in a safe, comfy position and I don't need to be on-guard like I used to. 

 

I am working on letting my real personality out. It's done well so far! People feed off of it, I get more smiles and cheery attitudes reciprocated than I ever expected! Granted, I do like some aspects of being a little stern and stoic, but overall the light is leaking through the cracks (sorta speak), and my loving, excitive personality is starting to show. I don't know about the kink relating to the career thing, because all my ex's were subs, yet were all in charge and pretty... hardcore... in their roles. Likewise, I am a bubbly happy loving sub myself, but I am in charge of A LOT and I have a small team I am responsible for training, delegating, guiding, and correcting (ironically one of those people is a Daddydom XD). I definitely see your point though, there is often a correlation in these things. 

[Hastings]

Hi! I've had a similar problem. I'm Submissive in my Little side in regards to everyday life stuff. But I am generally not Submissive sexually (except in a few rare instances). This creates a scenario where I need a partner who is Dominant in everyday life things but Submissive sexually who matches well with my personality type and can handle me switching back and forth between Submissive Little and Dominant big. That isn't exactly easy to find from a Vanilla standpoint. Vanilla dating, for me, has had ups and downs. Seeking partners directly in the dynamic has had ups and downs. Overall, finding the 'right' person is a journey. The best thing I can advise is to find someone who you connect very well with, let them know early on where you stand with your situation, and if they love and care about you they will seek to meet your needs as well as guiding you with meeting their needs. All successful relationships are partnerships. Partners work together in a situation. 

 

There are going to be a lot of people out there who will turn you down just because you aren't Dominant. That's okay. It just means they aren't right for you. While the pool of potential partners gets smaller when you're a Sub guy, it doesn't mean that the pool is completely empty. There are resources for meeting Dom women. Finding satisfaction in a pure Vanilla relationship will be difficult. I'm telling you that now. My last long-term relationship was Vanilla, as my partner didn't accept my Little side, and being unable to let my Little side out had me feeling very unhappy with the relationship. If your Vanilla partner doesn't mind your Sub/Little side, and is fine with working with you to meet your needs in that regard then you'll be fine. 

 

Communication is essential in this. Communicate your needs early on and see if the person is willing to work with you and if their needs are something you feel you could meet. It will take a bit of time, but you'll find someone.